Please help a novice in distress

[DJK12]

Yeah I know it's really kinda wait a minute whaaat!!??? I mean.....if you'd like to tell us more, that's not a very common thing. I hope you're ok. There may be.....other ways.....

My Dad is an only child, I'm an only child, my son is an only child......he's 25 now. 25. Good lord I was just 25....wtf.....

Tell me about it man, I'm only 30 but ever since I got diagnosed a while back it seems like the more I try to cherish time the quicker it goes. Definitely kidding about the vasectomy thing lol, the thought of a court oderdered vasectomy is fucken hilarious and needed nowadays

 

[Harpua88]

Tell me about it man, I'm only 30 but ever since I got diagnosed a while back it seems like the more I try to cherish time the quicker it goes. Definitely kidding about the vasectomy thing lol, the thought of a court oderdered vasectomy is fucken hilarious and needed nowadays

I know a whole bunch of people who should never have had children......

I don't know what you were diagnosed with......besides being effing awesome..... ;). Maybe you said it in this thread, I'll go back and read, but I hope you're ok.

 

[Trash_2002]

The only thing I can think of is the temperature being a bit too high at times, sometimes it creeps into the 80s but only for a bit so I can't see that being that harmful? What about light leaks during the dark cycle? During the dark cycle it's cooler so I switch the aircon off but sometimes I don't do it before the lights go off at 2200 and I have to go in the room to turn it off. I don't turn the light in the grow room on but there is a little light coming in from the elsewhere when I go in there. Is this a factor?



I've been following your advice to the letter so I haven't been using the Big Bloom, only the Grow Big. I'll decrease the doses a little with the next feed. I've only given them CalMag once so far. Next time I use that I'll decrease the dose of that too. I've trained the tallest plant so that's it's nearly the same height as the others. It turns out that the seaweed I bought isn't for the soil, it's supposed to be used as a foliar spray so I'll stop using that when I water them. I've raised the light and they're getting around 400 PPFD now. Temperatures are almost always between 76 and 80 and humidity is always around 50 to 60%. I've just checked the PH of the soil and they're all 6.8. It isn't possible for me to collect the runoff while I'm using a SCROG net so I may have to get rid of this the next time I water them. I'm coming up to the end of week 6 so it's normally time to flip soon but I guess I should keep them in beg and get these problems addressed before I flip them?

@IsanFarmer

78-82f @ canopy for LEDs seems to be the gold range without co2 enrichment as far as i see around.
Yerp don't use that seaweed on soil anymore, sorry cause every seaweed product i've used over the years is meant to be used foliar and/or soil drench,, but i dont think that's causing any of the problems on your girls, but just as a precaution stop using it for a while, including foliar spray.

Don't practice light leaks at night times, never, in flower it will get you pretty screwed with hermies and etc.
but its not the cause of your problems neither

Its too much light! go easy on lights!
i would wait to a recover for 1 maybe 2 weeks than flip´em to flower based on size and how they look.

follow the Fox farm Feeding Schedule always at 1/4-1/2 Strength Max

https://foxfarm.com/download/13115/?tmstv=1687380714

1/2 strength only in flowering is what i see people using it for this line of nutrients.
in their schedule they say to use much more very high EC feeds.

For now keep it at 1/3 strength but use the big bloom for veg at 1/3 the dosage too

How long your plants are taking to dryback before next watering/feed?

 

[IsanFarmer]

@IsanFarmer

78-82f @ canopy for LEDs seems to be the gold range without co2 enrichment as far as i see around.
Yerp don't use that seaweed on soil anymore, sorry cause every seaweed product i've used over the years is meant to be used foliar and/or soil drench,, but i dont think that's causing any of the problems on your girls, but just as a precaution stop using it for a while, including foliar spray.

Don't practice light leaks at night times, never, in flower it will get you pretty screwed with hermies and etc.
but its not the cause of your problems neither

Its too much light! go easy on lights!
i would wait to a recover for 1 maybe 2 weeks than flip´em to flower based on size and how they look.

follow the Fox farm Feeding Schedule always at 1/4-1/2 Strength Max

https://foxfarm.com/download/13115/?tmstv=1687380714

1/2 strength only in flowering is what i see people using it for this line of nutrients.
in their schedule they say to use much more very high EC feeds.

For now keep it at 1/3 strength but use the big bloom for veg at 1/3 the dosage too

How long your plants are taking to dryback before next watering/feed?

Cheers Trash, I really appreciate your help with this. Keeping them in veg for another week or so to give them time to recover before flipping was what I was thinking too. The plants are taking about 4 days before the soil has dried out which is good because it's consistent with your initial advice. As for light leaks during flower, this is going to be awkward for me because it's hot as fuck where I live, it's 2334 as I write this and still 35 degrees centigrade outside. My current dark cycle is 2200 to 0400 and I don't need the aircon on then but I'm planning to set the dark cycle for 1800 to 0600 when they're in flower and I'll probably need to get in the room between 1800 and 2200 to check the temperature and turn the aircon on and off accordingly but I don't see how I can do this without letting light into the room. Any suggestions? Do they sell night vision goggles for growers?

 

[Trash_2002]

Cheers Trash, I really appreciate your help with this. Keeping them in veg for another week or so to give them time to recover before flipping was what I was thinking too. The plants are taking about 4 days before the soil has dried out which is good because it's consistent with your initial advice. As for light leaks during flower, this is going to be awkward for me because it's hot as fuck where I live, it's 2334 as I write this and still 35 degrees centigrade outside. My current dark cycle is 2200 to 0400 and I don't need the aircon on then but I'm planning to set the dark cycle for 1800 to 0600 when they're in flower and I'll probably need to get in the room between 1800 and 2200 to check the temperature and turn the aircon on and off accordingly but I don't see how I can do this without letting light into the room. Any suggestions? Do they sell night vision goggles for growers?

I run AC and dehumidifier 24/7
if you set AC to lets say 25c to get inside tent to 26-28c during the day, at night if it drops below 25C the AC compressor will be off by default and only recirculating air.
Problem Solved ;-)

EDIT - i Use Fujitsu Inverter Split AC tho, much more economical tech.

 

[IsanFarmer]

I run AC and dehumidifier 24/7
if you set AC to lets say 25c to get inside tent to 26-28c during the day, at night if it drops below 25C the AC compressor will be off by default and only recirculating air.
Problem Solved ;-)

EDIT - i Use Fujitsu Inverter Split AC tho, much more economical tech.

Unfortunately the AC unit in my grow room isn't programmable.

 

[Stokes]

Sure.
He is growing in a peat moss based potting mix. Yes, peat moss is organic material but it's a long way organic living soil.
This is is living soil - composted leaves, grass and plant matter. It's full of bugs, fungus, worms and microscopic microbial life. This is full of minerals, micro nutrients mined buy generations of plants then passed onto the next generation for thousands of generations.
View attachment 1987288

Peat moss based potting mix or substrate as the op is using is dead. There is no microbial life like there is in the living soil pictured above.
Company's selling potting mixes get away with saying this is organic because it's organic material yes but it's dead. There are no minerals available in it. There is no fungus, No nematodes no worms or other microscopic biological life that all go together and create what I know to be the natural food web. The stuff that comes in a bag like that. You need to add everything your plant requires. Everything!

All the base minerals. It cannot produce nitrogen buy adding sugar water. There is no microbial life in it to eat the sugar then fart and produce nitrogen or anything else for the plants.

I see the same thing over and over again.
Calcium deficiency
Magnesium deficiency and many others all because guys that don't understand are growing in a peat moss based or other dead so called organic potting mix without adding a mineral solution so the micro-nutrients like iron, manganese and hundreds of others are available for the plants.

A couple of cups of pot ash / wood ash in a gallon of water makes all the difference in the world. But you still have to use N-P-K Man made fertilizers that bypass the natural food web and directly feed the plant with this kind of growing medium. These chemical based fertilizers are designed in laboratories and require careful measurement but still only do 1/2 the job. That's why we have to add Cal-Mag because there is no Calcium or Magnesium in Peat moss well there may be a little but not nearly enough.

If you want to grow in potting mix. Look up water only super soil. Or making organic super soil for growing cannabis.
There are hundreds of videos on youtube that will help you put into the pot what the plants need to grow.

If you want to grow organic Check this link out.
https://www.thcfarmer.com/threads/growing-organic-buy-nate-growing-like-a-viking.147687/

You’re absolutely right but you can add worm castings or even black kow to peat moss. Pro mix is a great cheap base to start out a super soil.

 

[Harpua88]

@IsanFarmer

78-82f @ canopy for LEDs seems to be the gold range

One vote here for cooler temps. Full respect for VPD ranges, but I've always been a fan of upper 60s to low 70s.

 

[Harpua88]

I run AC and dehumidifier 24/7
if you set AC to lets say 25c to get inside tent to 26-28c during the day, at night if it drops below 25C the AC compressor will be off by default and only recirculating air.
Problem Solved ;-)

EDIT - i Use Fujitsu Inverter Split AC tho, much more economical tech.

We just had 2 LG mini-split units installed. 4 separate blowers. Bedides the absolute silence, the a/c is far better than I thought. It's like industrial, commetcial-level air conditioning. We haven't had a real heat wave yet, but we've got the blowers on the lowest setting and it's enough.

By the way, "Cheers Trash" is already the funny of the day. ;)

 

[Trash_2002]

One vote here for cooler temps. Full respect for VPD ranges, but I've always been a fan of upper 60s to low 70s.

Science says that with LEDs because of the lack in IR photons you want to run higher temps than HPS so you get higher photosynthesis rates bigger yields and healthier plants overall, as a way to up transpiration with higher leaf surface temperature. HPS and the Sun have lots of IR power and throws a lot of heat down on leaves, LEDs throw a lot of heat up and very little on the leaves.

So to get good photosynthesis rates with HPS you want 25.5c max air temp.
With LEDs you would want 25.5c as a minimum and max 27.5c without c02 seems to be the sweet spot in Theory.

 

[IsanFarmer]

Science says that with LEDs because of the lack in IR photons you want to run higher temps than HPS so you get higher photosynthesis rates bigger yields and healthier plants overall, as a way to up transpiration with higher leaf surface temperature. HPS and the Sun have lots of IR power and throws a lot of heat down on leaves, LEDs throw a lot of heat up and very little on the leaves.

So to get good photosynthesis rates with HPS you want 25.5c max air temp.
With LEDs you would want 25.5c as a minimum and max 27.5c without c02 seems to be the sweet spot in Theory.

I currently have my light cycle at 0400 to 2200. It would be much more convenient if it was 0600 to midnight. Will it make much difference if I decide to change it as from tomorrow?

 

[Trash_2002]

I currently have my light cycle at 0400 to 2200. It would be much more convenient if it was 0600 to midnight. Will it make much difference if I decide to change it as from tomorrow?

let it run today 2 hours more lights on till midnight and tomorrow start the new schedule, its ok.

 

[BillyBanchan]

Science says that with LEDs because of the lack in IR photons you want to run higher temps than HPS so you get higher photosynthesis rates bigger yields and healthier plants overall, as a way to up transpiration with higher leaf surface temperature. HPS and the Sun have lots of IR power and throws a lot of heat down on leaves, LEDs throw a lot of heat up and very little on the leaves.

So to get good photosynthesis rates with HPS you want 25.5c max air temp.
With LEDs you would want 25.5c as a minimum and max 27.5c without c02 seems to be the sweet spot in Theory.

Would this warrant an UV / IR supplemental light if one was typically dealing with cooler average temps?

B²

 

[Trash_2002]

Would this warrant an UV / IR supplemental light if one was typically dealing with cooler average temps?

B²

leds with IR helps a little bit (my LED veg lights has IR and UV) it helps 1c in leaf surface temperature compared to my flower leds witch doesnt have neither..
but there are two possible ways (ir and uv leds burn faster aren't as efficient and kind not worth to add it)
One way is invert air flow in the tent, remove hot air from the floor.
Other is installing a roof top fan pointing upwards of the tent mixing and throwing the hot air gently down on the plants. (i did this one and it helped a lot to keep temps right in cold days)

 

[Harpua88]

Science says that with LEDs because of the lack in IR photons you want to run higher temps than HPS so you get higher photosynthesis rates bigger yields and healthier plants overall, as a way to up transpiration with higher leaf surface temperature. HPS and the Sun have lots of IR power and throws a lot of heat down on leaves, LEDs throw a lot of heat up and very little on the leaves.

So to get good photosynthesis rates with HPS you want 25.5c max air temp.
With LEDs you would want 25.5c as a minimum and max 27.5c without c02 seems to be the sweet spot in Theory.

I don't know, that seems hot, although when I put my hand around the tops I feel a little more heat than the closet temp, and I did get pretty fast growth, even at lower light power......then again the lights I'm using are very powerful. All of this together though I'm certainly not going to add heating to get my closet and room temps up into the mid 80s, summer or winter.

I would say that my leaf/canopy temps get into the mid to upper 70s, so that's pretty darn close anyway.

 

[Trash_2002]

I don't know, that seems hot, although when I put my hand around the tops I feel a little more heat than the closet temp, and I did get pretty fast growth, even at lower light power......then again the lights I'm using are very powerful. All of this together though I'm certainly not going to add heating to get my closet and room temps up into the mid 80s, summer or winter.

for veg anything goes as long they like it.. but at flowering we want fast/efficient photosynthesis if we want fast flowering and bigger yields.
thats why with co2 enrichment we want 27.5c-29.5c air temps.. faster photosynthesis require higher temps, more light, more nutrients, more water etc etc etc

 

[BudgetGrower]

for veg anything goes as long they like it.. but at flowering we want fast/efficient photosynthesis if we want fast flowering and bigger yields.
thats why with co2 enrichment we want 27.5c-29.5c air temps.. faster photosynthesis require higher temps, more light, more nutrients, more water etc etc etc

There always a tipping point but 22-30c sounds good to me, I don't add Co2 to my grow room

 

[IsanFarmer]

These were taken yesterday, which was day 49. I think they look quite healthy since I decreased the intensity of the light but what do you guys think? They've responded well to 1/3 of the dose of Fox Farm Grow Big, Big Bloom and CalMag so I think I might up the dose to 1/2 with the next feed, which I'll give them tomorrow morning. We have to move house at some point in August so I'm going to have to flip these soon even though I wanted to veg them a bit longer. I'm thinking of doing this on Sunday. I have been a bit paranoid about defoliating but I took off loads of leaves two days ago and they started growing again so in future I won't be so paranoid about heavy defoliation. Before I flip them on Sunday I think I will take a load more leaves off from under the canopies.

My light cycle temperature is always between 75 and 78 but during the dark cycle I turn the aircon off to save money which means the temperature is between 78 and 82. Is this a problem because I've heard that your dark cycle temperature should be lower than the light cycle?

 

[Trash_2002]

These were taken yesterday, which was day 49. I think they look quite healthy since I decreased the intensity of the light but what do you guys think? They've responded well to 1/3 of the dose of Fox Farm Grow Big, Big Bloom and CalMag so I think I might up the dose to 1/2 with the next feed, which I'll give them tomorrow morning. We have to move house at some point in August so I'm going to have to flip these soon even though I wanted to veg them a bit longer. I'm thinking of doing this on Sunday. I have been a bit paranoid about defoliating but I took off loads of leaves two days ago and they started growing again so in future I won't be so paranoid about heavy defoliation. Before I flip them on Sunday I think I will take a load more leaves off from under the canopies.

My light cycle temperature is always between 75 and 78 but during the dark cycle I turn the aircon off to save money which means the temperature is between 78 and 82. Is this a problem because I've heard that your dark cycle temperature should be lower than the light cycle?

they look great mate! i'm glad the reduced PPFD got'em better :-)

stay same dosage 1/3 grow big and big bloom and reduced ca/mg, i see some very little tip burn, signal they are almost at the edge of nutrients strength, witch is fine, that's one of the first signals to read if you are doing too much or not.

its beneficial to have a dark cycle at least equal to day temps to reduce stretch or 5-10f lower than day temps, i would let the AC run 24/7, but that's me, see the dark cycle as a rest time, a bit lower temps makes sense as is in nature and they love it, in flower it will also help bring on some nice colours in the flowers.

leave the defoliation to the end of stretch phase (after ~3weeks flowering 12/12 light cycle)

train the big ones again under the net, spread those branches ;-)

cheers!

 

[IsanFarmer]

they look great mate! i'm glad the reduced PPFD got'em better :-)

stay same dosage 1/3 grow big and big bloom and reduced ca/mg, i see some very little tip burn, signal they are almost at the edge of nutrients strength, witch is fine, that's one of the first signals to read if you are doing too much or not.

its beneficial to have a dark cycle at least equal to day temps to reduce stretch or 5-10f lower than day temps, i would let the AC run 24/7, but that's me, see the dark cycle as a rest time, a bit lower temps makes sense as is in nature and they love it, in flower it will also help bring on some nice colours in the flowers.

leave the defoliation to the end of stretch phase (after ~3weeks flowering 12/12 light cycle)

train the big ones again under the net, spread those branches ;-)

cheers!

I've just trained some of the branches on the taller plant but I couldn't do too many of them because the holes in my net are too big. I've just prepared the feed at 1/3 the dose ready for tomorrow morning. I think I will start running the AC 24/7 to reduce the temperature during the dark cycle. Thanks for your advice, it is much appreciated.