Chad.Westport
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- Sep 29, 2020
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Credit to Berner Herzog for the below info, but it heavily applies to the current mood of the conversation.
Are your plants lacking “top bin” LEDs and name brand recognition or are they lacking IR light and under canopy lighting? And in your personal life, are you lacking money, or clout?
What if I told you 576 “top bin” Samsung LM3018 diodes are better than 606 “best” Samsung LM3018 diodes, but we’ll run them all hotter to compensate? What if I told you that those 30 fewer diodes were going to cost you an extra $150? If I were you at this point I’d start to look at fluff terminology like “top bin” and “best” and ask if it is worth paying much more per diode, and getting fewer diodes based on a marketing term.
But if we’re going to fluff lets get to it. The “top bin” to me sounds like a place where all the dust collects, that’s not just a fact, its a law of nature. Where would I put my finest product? Not in that dusty top bin. Now “best”, well nothing is better than “best”. That’s a law of language. Where is the “best” bin? They’ll never tell you but it sure as shit isn’t at the top. The “top bin”, perhaps is for foreign buyers, the “best” bin could be for locals and friends who can repay favors. But this is all fluffing, and we have become fluffers.
Whatever quality “top bin” may or may not have is not great enough to overcome 30 additional “best” diodes from the same manufacturer on their competitors product. That difference also won’t amount to much considering their competitor uses the same brand of driver (Mean Well). Their competitor has two 760nm IR light diodes, they have none. To compensate for the numerical inferiority they run more watts through fewer diodes than their competitor. To top it all off they charge you $150 more for less product than their competitor.
At this point the bin debate goes to independent laboratory testing to defend “top bin”. The more expensive option has one listing from one trade organization and a letter from a lab in Anaheim, CA. The less expensive option has that same listing, and no letter from Anaheim, CA. So now we’re at less diodes, no IR, name brand recognition, some official stationary from Anaheim, CA and hotter diodes on average all for the low low price increase of $150.
So at this point you need to chose either $450 plus fluff and heat or $300 plus IR, 30 additional diodes, and less heat.
MATH vs BRAND LOYALTY:
$300 : (SPIDER FARMER) {SF-2000} 606 diodes (28 deep red diodes, 2 760 nm IR diodes, 576 LM3018 3000-5000k mixed diodes) 2 IR diodes plus 28 deep red diodes, (identical number of white/blue diodes as HLG total number of diodes)
or
$450 : (HORTICULTURE LIGHTING GROUP) {HLG 300L V2 RSpec} 576 diodes (32 deep red LM3018 3500k) No IR Diodes 30 less diodes overall
Or lets say you’ve been looking at a HLG 550 RSpec:
$800 : (HORTICULTURE LIGHTING GROUP) {HLG 550 V2 RSpec} 1152 diodes (64 deep red 1088 LM3018 3500k) No IR diodes 60 less diodes overall
vs
$600 (2X SF-2000 @ $300) : (SPIDER FARMER) {SF-2000 (two fixtures)} 1212 diodes (56 deep red diodes, 4 760nm IR diodes, and 1,152 LM3018 3000-5000k mixed diodes) 2 IR diodes, plus 28 deep red diodes, (identical number of white/blue diodes as HLG total number of diodes)
My personal experience with the SF2000 is that it produces a stem on every leaf and when mated with a hybrid aquaponic/hydroponic setup I get about four stems forming per week, every week of veg. The two larger plants below spent 10-14 days in seed starting mix before being transplanted into the hybrid A/H mini barrels on September 7th. Today is October 7th.
(Girl Scout Cookie plant to the far left is from May 31st and part of a semi disappointing bonsai experiment, that’s where the unusual branching comes from)
Final Points:
So at this point if the quality of quantity isn’t enough, and a fuller spectrum means nothing, lets look at performance. We do not have a lab that will work for free, but we do have AlboPepper on YouTube, which is the same thing minus a neighboring Target and Starbucks. A single SF-2000 will achieve a PPFD of 1054 in a 20×36 space, meaning your DLI is 45.5 for a 12 hour flower. Outdoor flowering light is 60 DLI for comparison. Reference material: Go to 3:20 to skip straight to it
Why and how is PPFD of 45.5 very good? 22:00 for PPFD to DLI
Why LEDs are inherently better grow lights https://www.canr.msu.edu/floriculture/uploads/files/updateefficacy.pdf
P.S.
Q: “Wait, where’s the under canopy lighting coming from?”
A: The money you saved.
-Burner “the power of china compels me” Herzog
Are your plants lacking “top bin” LEDs and name brand recognition or are they lacking IR light and under canopy lighting? And in your personal life, are you lacking money, or clout?
What if I told you 576 “top bin” Samsung LM3018 diodes are better than 606 “best” Samsung LM3018 diodes, but we’ll run them all hotter to compensate? What if I told you that those 30 fewer diodes were going to cost you an extra $150? If I were you at this point I’d start to look at fluff terminology like “top bin” and “best” and ask if it is worth paying much more per diode, and getting fewer diodes based on a marketing term.
But if we’re going to fluff lets get to it. The “top bin” to me sounds like a place where all the dust collects, that’s not just a fact, its a law of nature. Where would I put my finest product? Not in that dusty top bin. Now “best”, well nothing is better than “best”. That’s a law of language. Where is the “best” bin? They’ll never tell you but it sure as shit isn’t at the top. The “top bin”, perhaps is for foreign buyers, the “best” bin could be for locals and friends who can repay favors. But this is all fluffing, and we have become fluffers.
Whatever quality “top bin” may or may not have is not great enough to overcome 30 additional “best” diodes from the same manufacturer on their competitors product. That difference also won’t amount to much considering their competitor uses the same brand of driver (Mean Well). Their competitor has two 760nm IR light diodes, they have none. To compensate for the numerical inferiority they run more watts through fewer diodes than their competitor. To top it all off they charge you $150 more for less product than their competitor.
At this point the bin debate goes to independent laboratory testing to defend “top bin”. The more expensive option has one listing from one trade organization and a letter from a lab in Anaheim, CA. The less expensive option has that same listing, and no letter from Anaheim, CA. So now we’re at less diodes, no IR, name brand recognition, some official stationary from Anaheim, CA and hotter diodes on average all for the low low price increase of $150.
So at this point you need to chose either $450 plus fluff and heat or $300 plus IR, 30 additional diodes, and less heat.
MATH vs BRAND LOYALTY:
$300 : (SPIDER FARMER) {SF-2000} 606 diodes (28 deep red diodes, 2 760 nm IR diodes, 576 LM3018 3000-5000k mixed diodes) 2 IR diodes plus 28 deep red diodes, (identical number of white/blue diodes as HLG total number of diodes)
or
$450 : (HORTICULTURE LIGHTING GROUP) {HLG 300L V2 RSpec} 576 diodes (32 deep red LM3018 3500k) No IR Diodes 30 less diodes overall
Or lets say you’ve been looking at a HLG 550 RSpec:
$800 : (HORTICULTURE LIGHTING GROUP) {HLG 550 V2 RSpec} 1152 diodes (64 deep red 1088 LM3018 3500k) No IR diodes 60 less diodes overall
vs
$600 (2X SF-2000 @ $300) : (SPIDER FARMER) {SF-2000 (two fixtures)} 1212 diodes (56 deep red diodes, 4 760nm IR diodes, and 1,152 LM3018 3000-5000k mixed diodes) 2 IR diodes, plus 28 deep red diodes, (identical number of white/blue diodes as HLG total number of diodes)
My personal experience with the SF2000 is that it produces a stem on every leaf and when mated with a hybrid aquaponic/hydroponic setup I get about four stems forming per week, every week of veg. The two larger plants below spent 10-14 days in seed starting mix before being transplanted into the hybrid A/H mini barrels on September 7th. Today is October 7th.
(Girl Scout Cookie plant to the far left is from May 31st and part of a semi disappointing bonsai experiment, that’s where the unusual branching comes from)
Final Points:
So at this point if the quality of quantity isn’t enough, and a fuller spectrum means nothing, lets look at performance. We do not have a lab that will work for free, but we do have AlboPepper on YouTube, which is the same thing minus a neighboring Target and Starbucks. A single SF-2000 will achieve a PPFD of 1054 in a 20×36 space, meaning your DLI is 45.5 for a 12 hour flower. Outdoor flowering light is 60 DLI for comparison. Reference material: Go to 3:20 to skip straight to it
Why and how is PPFD of 45.5 very good? 22:00 for PPFD to DLI
Why LEDs are inherently better grow lights https://www.canr.msu.edu/floriculture/uploads/files/updateefficacy.pdf
P.S.
Q: “Wait, where’s the under canopy lighting coming from?”
A: The money you saved.
-Burner “the power of china compels me” Herzog
