Stop The Bro Science Behind Molasses And Other Organic Stuff

[Organikz]

Making some extra strong hash caps to go extra strong this week!

 

[oldskol4evr]

Can you blend it up and use it as top feeding? Or does it need to ferment in the batch soil. I top feed coffee grounds, epsom and egg shells in the middle of veg. Don't know if it helps, just something I do.

no it has to be stuff away to grow ,no light all moisture but not to much

 

[oldskol4evr]

Can you blend it up and use it as top feeding? Or does it need to ferment in the batch soil. I top feed coffee grounds, epsom and egg shells in the middle of veg. Don't know if it helps, just something I do.

you can brown them egg shells for calcium,and burn for phos if you didnt already know that,i take and crush to a powder my shells ,1 tbsp of shells and 2 tbsp of cider vineger,mix well and put under my tomatoe plants,1 in soil bottom of pot about 2in layer of compost then 1in soil transplant on that and finish the transplanting,tomato get blossom end rot,a black circle on the bottom of tomato,this is when you have calcium issues,by mixing this runny mud it absorbs in compost and soil and plant takes it as needed

 

[MGG Nubie]

you can brown them egg shells for calcium,and burn for phos if you didnt already know that,i take and crush to a powder my shells ,1 tbsp of shells and 2 tbsp of cider vineger,mix well and put under my tomatoe plants,1 in soil bottom of pot about 2in layer of compost then 1in soil transplant on that and finish the transplanting,tomato get blossom end rot,a black circle on the bottom of tomato,this is when you have calcium issues,by mixing this runny mud it absorbs in compost and soil and plant takes it as needed

yeah your right for phos. I use wood ash. the apple cider gma loved on the fruit trees and tomatoes but I have never put it in my soil. the white vinagar is a herbicide be careful. do you think adding powdered oat for some funguys in my top soil will help the feeders? never used oats but it sounds like a go for the prep of my soil in my next grow.

 

[oldskol4evr]

yeah your right for phos. I use wood ash. the apple cider gma loved on the fruit trees and tomatoes but I have never put it in my soil. the white vinagar is a herbicide be careful. do you think adding powdered oat for some funguys in my top soil will help the feeders? never used oats but it sounds like a go for the prep of my soil in my next grow.

never used it powdered so cant really say,i just throw the same oat meal i eat in it,after a week or 2 i turn it,give a shot of water add more and keep on trucking,make sure you have vent holes in bottom of the tote,you dont want it to go anerobic on ya,best way to tell when the soil is really cooked and ready,plant a bean in it,or any other lugumes,thats the real test

 

[Ecompost]

There's the dude. Lol. He's correct. Fish bone meal becomes more readily available faster.

@Ceveres
You will be ooohed and ahhhed by all the shit people put in dirt. Coot said it. These are the necessary components, kelp, MBP, and neem. All the other shit is bells and whistles.

My new secret amendment is pine bark fines. $2 a cubic foot. Fancy ehhh?

Pine needles are acidic, but why not if you have high pH water, this might help you buffer any swing up. I use humus from Ceratonia siliqua, you may know this as carob or alfarroba, its a tree but actually a member of the pea family, its also known as fake chocolate.
I use both white Ca rich clays and red iron rich clays, coated sand, silt, with leaf mold based loams as my base soil, all locally sourced. I add to it the soil and matter I collect from the alfarroba tree base etc which is a deep black and other leaf molds, oak in particular. I use rice hulls again locally sourced for aeration.
I pre treat my media by adding a Bokashi amendment with the carob loam etc, and I add a mix of other microbes from soil fungus and bacteria at planting. I use $2 of nutrients and biology per plant on average

 

[brazel]

This was a purchased bag of soil I added to. Everything I added, i already had. I've had the same 50# bag of dolomite lime for 5+ years. Bought it when I started growing for $13 barely any gone still (granted I didn't grow for a few years).
Seeing the redundancies in that prefab soil is pretty crazy when you put it like that. Obviously Myco's is a sales tactic because they have to come in contact with roots to be effective. I add Myco's when I transplant directly on roots or in hole. I didn't know what DE was for. Just kinda added it. Stupid now that I know it's for silicate bc I already use Protekt in veg, and it seems to really only help gnats when sprinkled on top. Once it's wet I don't think it's effective.

[QUOTE="oldskol4evr, post: 2035941

Yeah mycos is definitely one of those hype words, so they wanna add it to everything.
I feel you bro, and that 50# bag will last year's on years!
DE kills bugs insects by cutting up their exoskeleton. I put a six inch pile on top of a ant hill...They just tunneled through it!
That was the last time I used it!
Correct, on top and dry... for insects. If you're going after the trace minerals and silica than you can add it.

 

[brazel]

hey it just me,i think it clogs up the air passages,i might just be over doing it,nothing wrong with it i guess if you have problems,the new course granular stuff i would use,but just in bottom of pot,a good friend that has since pass,taught me a trick in coco,put cheese cloth in bottom of pot to keep crawlers and flyers out,it worked but was too damn messy for me,lmao

Cheese cloth, nice. Ill haven to try it, I normally use a paper towel

 

[brazel]

Cheese cloth is clever, ove heard of using hydroton balls on the bottoms for drainage, and sand o


I'll have to take a look at that course DE stuff.. is it like gnatrol or something? I totally understand what you mean about nitrogen creating tall weak plants. Urea is possibly the worst form of N. It creates weak cell structure. They might grow fast with it, but they won't be strong healthy plants.

This soil has been "cold cooking" in my basement, in a big tub with a lid, for a few weeks. I added about a gallon of water to it and have been turning it occasionally.

I think ill take the new bag i bought, mix in about 1/4 of the other bag that I f*cked up. Add maybe a few more cups EWC and plant my clones in that. I'll just save the remaining hot soil and maybe add a 1/4 Or 1/2 cup high P sea bird guano and use it when I up pot the clones into their final home.



That's ultimately what I am trying to do is simplify everything, but change isn't always easy or smooth. Besides I don't think I have the knowledge to do what I want to do. But I've found it to work out in the end if I dive in head first wether I'm ready or not.

Hell yeah man, dive on in!
Once you get a grasp on it, if you want to go living organic soil style. They pretty much run on auto pilot specially if you have blumats.

I still spend about the same amount of time in there as when I had to do a lot of work but now I just spend that time meditating but I always found guarding meditating

Cheers

 

[brazel]

What would have been acceptable amounts of those amendments into 1.5cf? I've heard of people using 50% EWC so I didn't even think it was possible to go overboard with them. I brew 1cup Alfalfa and 1/4 kelp in 5gals water and they love it so I thought those would be fine.

Yea adding that soil will lower your I input ratio

If I add the other bag in to dilute the mix in half, would that do the trick?

3/4 cup for 1.5cf. If you're using alfalfa tea then you don't need to add alfalfa.
I haven't added it in for awhile.
It's good for foliar feeder.
It also has Triacontanol.
The problem with using both is that you're adding a lot of magnesium in there.

50% ewc is a bit much, go for 30% of ewc, spm and aeration.

If you added mycorrhizal, then you're good. You don't haven to keep adding it.
Malted barley powder is awesome

 

[brazel]

i would just use the bag of stuff you pictured,look good to me,i dont think you screwed the other up either,just do as you say and put a bit of the bag soil in with it,,hell i go straight into ocean forest with my beans,never had any burn up as every one says,too hot,,too hot for what,if my beans cant handle humus,wood and ewc,i dont want it,cause thats all these bag soils are,some thin with perlite,some wood chips,but it all the same,comes down to the humus,i like to take any new soil i use and cook it,i do this in summer,about every other week go out toss it around,do this to the first frezze warning,then i lay that shit out a inch thin on a tarp,let it frezze it ass off,kills any larvae you might have had cooking or composting,then close it up in a tote for use,inside if you dig,,but i looked at that bag and all looks great to me,i got a friend that grows in straight perlite,so you cant mess it up,just perfect it dig

Ha I totally agree! I've been saying the same thing...ffof is not hot. Show me the ingredient that would make it hot when it can't even grow a full cycle.

 

[Ecompost]

@Ceveres
Use a high quality humus source. Skip the line. EM what? Where did that Santa's beard come from? [Humus source here]. that stuff in em1 is what makes organic matter compost. Its in your humus. Save the coin.

Mix compost and grain and throw it down...wam bam...em1

Not sure i entirely agree with the EM1 thing but the humates....The fertility of a soil always relates to its humus content. It has been determined that humic substances participate in the regulation of most important characteristics of soil fertility and functionality.

1. they are accountable for the coloring and, therefore, thermal conditions. It is particularly important for cold clay soil which under the effect of humates becomes warmer.

2. long-term humate treatment is conducive to the improvement of soil structure. When humates enter the soil, they form potassium and magnesium humates that bond mechanical element of the soil and act as organo-mineral bridges between aggregates.

3. one of the important qualities of humates is their ion-exchange activity. It ensures humates’ ability to regulate the process of transformation of mineral nutrients in soil-plant systems.

4. humate treatment increases water saturation of soil. It is particularly important for sandy soils. Its water saturation ability increases by more than ten times after humate treatment.

5. the most important challenge of our times is restoration of the fertility of the soil in suburban zones of the industrially developed regions so that we might feed the growing populations. Modern ecological overload makes the soil’s natural self-rectification with micro-organisms insufficient. Traditionally, organic fertilizers (manure, compost) were used to increase biological activity of the soil and to improve its self-rectification, and yet, in spite of the high nutritious value of these products, their bond with organic mass is too close, and it decreases their assimilation. That is why these products are used in large quantities (up to 60-80 ton/hectare). Introduction of humic substances solves the problem very effectively.

Humic substances determine the structure and the fertility of the soil. They are an effective measure in solving ecological problems, such as pollution of soil and subsoil waters by chemicals used in agriculture. We can add humates to mineral fertilizers to reduce the long terms negatives and still receive the real benefits of application in high density production :-)

 

[brazel]

Has anyone seen my lighter!?

 

[Ecompost]

Yeah mycos is definitely one of those hype words, so they wanna add it to everything.
I feel you bro, and that 50# bag will last year's on years!
DE kills bugs insects by cutting up their exoskeleton. I put a six inch pile on top of a ant hill...They just tunneled through it!
That was the last time I used it!
Correct, on top and dry... for insects. If you're going after the trace minerals and silica than you can add it.

i doubt they would even be viable, depends on when they we added and when the bag was packed and sold. plus the levels are low anyway

 

[Ecompost]

Ha I totally agree! I've been saying the same thing...ffof is not hot. Show me the ingredient that would make it hot when it can't even grow a full cycle.

does he mean a bit rich for young ones and seeds? You cant buy that stuff here so i have no idea

 

[brazel]

Not sure i entirely agree with the EM1 thing but the humates....The fertility of a soil always relates to its humus content. It has been determined that humic substances participate in the regulation of most important characteristics of soil fertility and functionality.

1. they are accountable for the coloring and, therefore, thermal conditions. It is particularly important for cold clay soil which under the effect of humates becomes warmer.

2. long-term humate treatment is conducive to the improvement of soil structure. When humates enter the soil, they form potassium and magnesium humates that bond mechanical element of the soil and act as organo-mineral bridges between aggregates.

3. one of the important qualities of humates is their ion-exchange activity. It ensures humates’ ability to regulate the process of transformation of mineral nutrients in soil-plant systems.

4. humate treatment increases water saturation of soil. It is particularly important for sandy soils. Its water saturation ability increases by more than ten times after humate treatment.

5. the most important challenge of our times is restoration of the fertility of the soil in suburban zones of the industrially developed regions so that we might feed the growing populations. Modern ecological overload makes the soil’s natural self-rectification with micro-organisms insufficient. Traditionally, organic fertilizers (manure, compost) were used to increase biological activity of the soil and to improve its self-rectification, and yet, in spite of the high nutritious value of these products, their bond with organic mass is too close, and it decreases their assimilation. That is why these products are used in large quantities (up to 60-80 ton/hectare). Introduction of humic substances solves the problem very effectively.

Humic substances determine the structure and the fertility of the soil. They are an effective measure in solving ecological problems, such as pollution of soil and subsoil waters by chemicals used in agriculture. We can add humates to mineral fertilizers to reduce the long terms negatives and still receive the real benefits of application in high density production :)

They good for us too

 

[Ecompost]

you can brown them egg shells for calcium,and burn for phos if you didnt already know that,i take and crush to a powder my shells ,1 tbsp of shells and 2 tbsp of cider vineger,mix well and put under my tomatoe plants,1 in soil bottom of pot about 2in layer of compost then 1in soil transplant on that and finish the transplanting,tomato get blossom end rot,a black circle on the bottom of tomato,this is when you have calcium issues,by mixing this runny mud it absorbs in compost and soil and plant takes it as needed

you can use this as a foliar too mate, just mix with clean water at 1/15 if you are using the fizz stop method :-)

 

[Ecompost]

They good for us too

yes i take lots of bacteria and fungus myself. I use Lions mane, Red Reishi and Chaga daily as my main go to immune defense, I use Pro Biotics daily also. I take a balanced pH approach to my own diet and I use amendments where i am not in control of the plates :-) eg i use Kosher baking Soda and Mineral Salts

 

[Ecompost]

some more cool stuff about humates
The protective effect of humates

The increase in ionized radiation and pollution of our environment with herbicides, pesticides, heavy metal compounds, and other toxic mutagenic and carcinogenic substances presents a real danger to living organisms today and their progeny in the future. Considering the soil pollution by water soluble heavy metal salts in the industrial regions and the long-term excessive use of mineral fertilizer, pesticides, and herbicides in agricultural regions, the crops, particularly vegetables and root-crops, accumulate excess amounts of harmful admixtures. That is why the creation of pure agricultural technologies is one of the most important tasks of our time.

The protective effect of humates develop in the following directions:

1. Protection from radioactive irradiation and its consequences.
   
   
2. Protection from harmful admixtures in the atmosphere, soil, and subsoil waters in technogenic districts.
   
   
3. Protection from the consequences of the pesticides and other chemicals used in agriculture.
   
   
4. Protection from unfavorable environmental factors in zones of risky agriculture.
   
   
5. Decrease in content of the nitrates that form when nitrogen fertilizer is used.
   

Long-term research showed that humic substances bond many organic and non-organic substances into poorly soluble or insoluble compounds, which prevents their penetration from soil into subsoil waters and growing plants. It reduces the toxic effect of residual amounts of herbicides, soil polluting radio nuclides, heavy metals, and other harmful substances, as well as radiation and chemical contamination. Tests showed that even after 50% affection of the plant, its vital functions are completely restored due to the humic preparation effect. This unique quality of humates is particularly important for the regions in Russia, Byelorussia, and Ukraine that are contiguous to the Chernobyl region. In the future it could be used to gradually restore contaminated land.

Modern floriculture is not possible without the use of different chemicals necessary to fight weed, pest, and plant disease. It is widely known, however, that the use of those chemicals causes a number of negative effects due to their accumulation in the soil. The infamous fact of DDT accumulation led to its complete banning. However, DDT appearance still occasionally occurs in crops. Science proved that sodium humate reduces the damaging effect of the pesticide atrazine by increasing its decomposition, which leads to an increase in the crop capacity of barley.

The use of humates in zones of risky agriculture is particularly important. Unfortunately, most territories of Russia can be considered risky. In the south, the humates help to fight the effect of droughts, since it has been established that the humate treatment of plants ensures their drought resistance. In Siberia and in the north of Russia, humate treatment can save the plants from late frosts. In the 1960s, a corn crop was saved by colleagues of Irkutsk university, after an unexpected frost. In 1996, in the Angarsk region, a strong frost happened on the 19th of June. The parts of the potato fields that had been treated with the humates were the only undamaged parts.

Watering soil with a 0.01% humate solution substantially increases the biological activity of the soil and boosts plants resistance against the harmful waste in technogenic zones of chemical and coking industries. In 1998, in Buryatia, wide scale tests were carried out in treating of saline soils with humates. The results showed a 214% increase in crops of green herbage, in comparison with the control group.

The ability of humates to create complexes and their high sorption activity are used to bond the ions of heavy metals in contaminated soil. That is why increased amount of humates (up to 20-30 kg per hectare) should be used on contaminated soil to ensure the contact and create favorable conditions for forming of complexes.

Humates accelerate water-exchange processes and physiological processes in the cell and participate in oxidation processes at the cell level. They are conducive to complete assimilation of mineral nutrients in the plant, particularly in abnormal cases, such as saline soils, drought, and other unfavorable environmental factors.

An important quality of humates is their ability to decrease the level of nitrate nitrogen in produce. It was proven by tests on a variety of crops (oats, corn, potatoes, root-crops, lettuce, cucumbers) that humate use decreases the nitrate content by 50% on average. At the Dnepropetrovsk agricultural institute, field tests were carried out on chernozem soils. Two crop cultures were tested - corn and barley (as second in the crop rotation). The herbicide atrazine (4 kg per hectare) was used on the corn. The results showed that atrazine reduced the growth of weeds by 80% and increased the crop capacity of the corn by 19%-20%. However, the residual amounts of the herbicide reduced the crop capacity in barley, which was sown after the corn in crop rotation, by 16%. The use of sodium humate considerably changed the situation. It stimulated corn growth and increased the crop capacity by an additional 10%, while the nitrates content (NO3) in the corn of honey and pearl ripeness decreased from 280.1 mg/kg to 199.7 mg/kg in laboratory tests and to 707 mg/kg in field tests. Barley grown after the corn was noted to improve its germination, growth, and mass gaining, while containing less atrazine and more chlorophyll in the leaves. The crop capacity of the barley increased by 5.2 center per hectare, with a total crop capacity reaching 30.9 centner per hectare. It was also noted that the atrazine content in the final produce decreased by 52%-71%, which made it an ecologically pure produce.

Thus, humic preparations are the reliable protection for plants and crops against harmful admixtures from our environment (soil, subsoil waters, rain-water, and the atmosphere), which is more polluted each day. They also protect crops from unfavorable environmental factors (drought, ionizing radiation, etc.).

Please note, this "reference" has been translated into English from its Russian form. Any small grammatical flaws that occur are simply the result of this translation. :-) thanks Eco

 

[brazel]

does he mean a bit rich for young ones and seeds? You cant buy that stuff here so i have no idea

Yeah. I personally think it's weird it's like a 1/2 assed amended soil They tell you after a couple weeks you gotta start using nutrients. They add shrimp meal and crab meal! Umm Crustacean meal!?