Gavita pro 600 / LEP 300 PLASMA test

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ttystikk

ttystikk

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I've just heard about an issue with Philips' 1000 DE bulbs, that they're failing a lot, and way early. Is this just malicious rumor, or is there some truth to it?
 
half baked

half baked

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mines burning on 1150 and she running sweet as a mofo, wakeandbake has 1 also and he got his burning fine, sounds like that could be malicious, plus you get a yr warrenty on the bulb anyways :) but between all my friends the 4 we've got are fine
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

6,892
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mines burning on 1150 and she running sweet as a mofo, wakeandbake has 1 also and he got his burning fine, sounds like that could be malicious, plus you get a yr warrenty on the bulb anyways :) but between all my friends the 4 we've got are fine

Sweet- it's good to hear from people who have them. How long have you had yours, and did you notice a substantial difference in plant response between it and the more common single ended 1000w units?
 
half baked

half baked

807
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Sweet- it's good to hear from people who have them. How long have you had yours, and did you notice a substantial difference in plant response between it and the more common single ended 1000w units?

hey bro, well id never used a 1000watt light before so i noticed a huge difference once i went from a 600hps with magnetic ballast to this beast of a light, when i first bought it i couldnt put it on full power due to not being able to lift it high enough, so we had it on 850 most of the way through and we upped the yeild by 10oz compared to the 600s around the room, now ive had the choice of using it on full power so i have, and the diff it makes to the plants is unbelievable, it actually helps stop stretch while leaving the colas to stack up real well, much better than ive seen with these strains previously :cool: before i got this it was alot more work training so this time round its felt like ive done nowt hahahaha
defo worth the investment bro, im upgrading all my tents to gavitas in the very near future, might treat myself to a 300lep too :)

the biggest thing i notice with this unit is cos the hood is so small its really easi to move the heat away compared to those massive hoods, and i'll be honest when i first seen the unit i laughed at the size of the shade, i wasnt laughing when i tried looking at the bulb when it was on tho :rolleyes:

invest away bro, you wont look back;)

where did you hear about the bulbs goin on these units?
 
half baked

half baked

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oh i forgot to say the bulb covers a 1.2x1.2 with absolutely no dark spots where single ended bulbs have a slight dark spot behind, im sure cos the element is bang in the center of the shade thats why it gives a much better spread

hb
 
Kyle mccall

Kyle mccall

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That's quite big my current tent is only 1.2 by 1.2 interesting stuff hb thanks.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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oh i forgot to say the bulb covers a 1.2x1.2 with absolutely no dark spots where single ended bulbs have a slight dark spot behind, im sure cos the element is bang in the center of the shade thats why it gives a much better spread

hb

1.2x1.2 is equivalent to 4x4 feet, or 16 square feet. That's actually the standard rating for most 1000w HID, whether it's MH or HPS. Has anyone done a direct replacement of a standard 1000w setup with the Gavita 1000w DE, and what did you observe?

hey bro, well id never used a 1000watt light before so i noticed a huge difference once i went from a 600hps with magnetic ballast to this beast of a light, when i first bought it i couldnt put it on full power due to not being able to lift it high enough, so we had it on 850 most of the way through and we upped the yeild by 10oz compared to the 600s around the room, now ive had the choice of using it on full power so i have, and the diff it makes to the plants is unbelievable, it actually helps stop stretch while leaving the colas to stack up real well, much better than ive seen with these strains previously :cool: before i got this it was alot more work training so this time round its felt like ive done nowt hahahaha
defo worth the investment bro, im upgrading all my tents to gavitas in the very near future, might treat myself to a 300lep too :)

the biggest thing i notice with this unit is cos the hood is so small its really easi to move the heat away compared to those massive hoods, and i'll be honest when i first seen the unit i laughed at the size of the shade, i wasnt laughing when i tried looking at the bulb when it was on tho :rolleyes:

invest away bro, you wont look back;)

where did you hear about the bulbs goin on these units?

It sounds like you had your 600w bulb too high and the plants stretched for it before. Or possibly the bulb was old, past its prime?

Size of the reflector doesn't matter half as much as how well it redirects the light down onto the canopy. I could see immediately they have a very efficient design. Part of what I want to do with this light is to install it on a rotator and see how the light spreads. For this application, the reflector would have to be more 'high-waisted', allowing more light to shine out sidways from the bulb, up to perhaps as little as 10-15 degrees below the horizontal. Currently, an Adjust-a-wing is the best reflector for this application, hands down. Even if it is bigger...

The other thing I want is a sealed and vented version, so I can exhaust the excess heat from the bulb from my sealed room. My cooling plant is sized for sealed and vented hoods, I wouldn't be able to get similar light intensity and coverage without it. It would be best if this ran from a remote ballast, so I could 'flip' the ballast's output between two rooms.

I'm excited about the possibilities of plasma as well, although I think it's currently still a bit spendy just for supplemental lighting. I'd rather just use a UVB specific lamp.
 
half baked

half baked

807
143
sorry bro i didnt explain properly, what i meant about the spread is that there is absolutely no dark spots with this unit where i find all single ended bulbs have a slight dark spot behind where the bulb screws in, just my observation tho

my 600s were fine bro, bulbs changed on the regs and temps were always perfect, i'll have to take a pic but ive never grown a 1ft long cola with the wifi cut im running and this time ive got like 10-15 of them, no gaps in the bud like im used to seeing with this strain

well the spread is great, i got mine bang in the center of my 1.2x1.2 and the light on the side walls starts 4-5inch lower than the shade hangs which is just amazing, i think its down to how the bulb is sat in the unit, but i dont think it would work on a rotator bro, just by the way it hangs, only the ballast side holds the weight where the shade side is just held up to stop it from spinning lol my friend has a lep and i gotta say the buds at the bottom of the plants are exactly the same as those near the hps, so its defo working i think, but im gonna wait till the price goes down :)
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

6,892
313
sorry bro i didnt explain properly, what i meant about the spread is that there is absolutely no dark spots with this unit where i find all single ended bulbs have a slight dark spot behind where the bulb screws in, just my observation tho

my 600s were fine bro, bulbs changed on the regs and temps were always perfect, i'll have to take a pic but ive never grown a 1ft long cola with the wifi cut im running and this time ive got like 10-15 of them, no gaps in the bud like im used to seeing with this strain

well the spread is great, i got mine bang in the center of my 1.2x1.2 and the light on the side walls starts 4-5inch lower than the shade hangs which is just amazing, i think its down to how the bulb is sat in the unit, but i dont think it would work on a rotator bro, just by the way it hangs, only the ballast side holds the weight where the shade side is just held up to stop it from spinning lol my friend has a lep and i gotta say the buds at the bottom of the plants are exactly the same as those near the hps, so its defo working i think, but im gonna wait till the price goes down :)

Yeah, I got you on the light distribution under the Gavita vs. mogul socket style HID- that's good news. What you're describing is the plants' response to an increase in PAR light intensity on the flowers, good to know it's impressing you like that! Since you didn't replace a 1000w mogul HPS with the Gavita, it's tough to tell how much of the improvement is due to which difference. Swapping it in for a 1000w would make for a more direct apples-to-apples comparison.

If you have a protractor or gauge, I would be interested to know exactly what angle from horizontal the light edge follows between the reflector and the edge of your tent. A 5 inch drop on a 24 inch run is about 1:5, or about 15 degrees? That's just guesstimating...

I Built my own light rotator- wanna see? As you can see, I'm aware of the challenges inherent in building light rotators, and running a one piece lighting system would be an easily solved issue. The main reason I want a remote ballast is so that I can use a flipbox to run two remote reflectors with each ballast, and saving myself some money in the process. If I were to go this route, I would need the reflectors to be sealed and vented. Or, I could be happy with just the ballast, cord, lamp and socket set- and I could build my own reflectors!
 
half baked

half baked

807
143
Yeah, I got you on the light distribution under the Gavita vs. mogul socket style HID- that's good news. What you're describing is the plants' response to an increase in PAR light intensity on the flowers, good to know it's impressing you like that! Since you didn't replace a 1000w mogul HPS with the Gavita, it's tough to tell how much of the improvement is due to which difference. Swapping it in for a 1000w would make for a more direct apples-to-apples comparison.

hahaha i hear ya there bro

If you have a protractor or gauge, I would be interested to know exactly what angle from horizontal the light edge follows between the reflector and the edge of your tent. A 5 inch drop on a 24 inch run is about 1:5, or about 15 degrees? That's just guesstimating...

i'll get the tape measure out and check it out for ya, im useless with maths lol

I Built my own light rotator- wanna see? As you can see, I'm aware of the challenges inherent in building light rotators, and running a one piece lighting system would be an easily solved issue. The main reason I want a remote ballast is so that I can use a flipbox to run two remote reflectors with each ballast, and saving myself some money in the process. If I were to go this route, I would need the reflectors to be sealed and vented. Or, I could be happy with just the ballast, cord, lamp and socket set- and I could build my own reflectors!

yh man i'll have a nosy later on :D , might be worth gettin intouch with gavita see what they can do for ya bro, they do remote ballasts but im sure they wouldnt run ordinary hps bulbs, because its running a 400volt bulb, something again im not 100% on but im sure ive read that somewhere

the biggest advantage for me is that its adjustable, when the temps get silly hot i just turn it down, not had to do it this time but had no choice when i first bought it lol
 
T

theherbalizor

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They are bringing out a single ended 1000w bulb that can be used with remote ballasts and your own choice of shade.

First I or the disti has heard about failing 1000de. Not had a single one returned with that problem.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

6,892
313
yh man i'll have a nosy later on :D , might be worth gettin intouch with gavita see what they can do for ya bro, they do remote ballasts but im sure they wouldnt run ordinary hps bulbs, because its running a 400volt bulb, something again im not 100% on but im sure ive read that somewhere

the biggest advantage for me is that its adjustable, when the temps get silly hot i just turn it down, not had to do it this time but had no choice when i first bought it lol

Yeah, if you could get me that measurement when you get a chance, I would be much obliged, thanks.

The remote ballast just runs the same reflector and 400v 1000w DE bulb from afar.

I know that running standard HID bulbs at low power accelerates their light depreciation. I wonder how these fare on that score?

They are bringing out a single ended 1000w bulb that can be used with remote ballasts and your own choice of shade.

First I or the disti has heard about failing 1000de. Not had a single one returned with that problem.

Yeah, Whazzap just told me this literally moments ago. I asked him if that single ended bulb was gonna be 400V. Haven't heard back yet. He did say that the reason they don't offer the 1000w DE in a sealed and vented hood is because the light has to run at a high temperature and the venting would reduce its output.

Re. failures; that's why I always look for confirmation about stuff I hear through the grapevine. This is new tech, the truth will out sooner or later. Meanwhile, it sounds like everyone here is very happy with them so far! I'm soooo jealous... lol

Looks like I'm gonna have to look at upgrading my cooling plant at some point. That, or get real creative. Yeah. Me. Creative. Take cover while you still can! lol
 
whazzup

whazzup

81
33
just for the record guys, (and it is the last thing I'll say about this subject until there is some real news): Gavita is a Luxim Business partner. When there is something new available, we have it. When they announce something new we already know it. Last year there were rumors about a new module, and preliminary specs were released in a newsletter. Unfortunately this model is not even out of its prototype stage. Luxim is a venture capital backed company which has to produce and innovate. But they hurt themselves by bringing out this information as the new module, let alone a fixture for it, will not be available in a long time. Last year some people were suggesting that it would be on the market soon (it was not) or latest beginning of this year (it was not). Now these rumor surface again as there is a light show in May where Luxim will be. Please visit their booth and see a dummy of a new module which will be not even pre-production ready until end of the year, so do not expect a new fixture until somewhere next year. We are not in the business of spreading rumors or misinformation. You can not take decisions based on rumors. So, if people on the forums I manage insist to keep on undermining the information flow by spreading false rumors (or even say I am a misinformed liar) I will warn them not to do so any more. If they persist: I have better things to do than fight windmills 9and we have a lot of then in Holland :D).

For those who still want to wait for a new and bigger module: The current plasma fixture has a pay-back time (just based on the added light output and corresponding yield) of less than two cycles. I do not even take quality into this consideration. So you get a good ROI for this fixture. Also it remains to be seen if you can swap the 300W for the new module. You need to be able to spread the light over a surface, specifically when you combine it with HPS. That means that you would need to have a much wider reflector or hang it higher to get the same mix of HPS and plasma.

So my recommendation is to not wait and just experience the plasma for yourself. It is a no-brainer if you calculate the pay back time. For HPS fixtures the pay-back time is of course less than one cycle.

Then about the price (just to give you an idea of our strategy): Our competitors in the US, for example Chameleon, have a much higher MSRP ($ 1695) to be able to give the shops a bigger margin, and for that they give you a metal box with a fan in it. Our horticultural quality fixture (solid state fanless, custom design, Miro reflecotor, float glass wide spectrum filter, Wieland connector, inox parts) has an MSRP in the US of $ 1299. This has been the price since launch. We keep the price and margins low to enable people to actually be able to afford this lamp. It will not become cheaper this year. Recently Chameleon in the US announced their prices to drop, I think they have a special deal for 1395. This is not to talk bad about the competition, they do a good job promoting this new technology and investing in it, there is more than enough room in the market for more suppliers. It's just to put thing a bit more in perspective.

New technology is exciting, and even more so if it is affordable. As most of you will not be growing lettuce and tomatoes the break even point will be much faster than with any horticultural crop. You will get a better ROI with a HPS lamp, no doubt about it. LEP is still by far not as efficient as HPS in producing photons. It can not (contrary to what some of the competition tries to sell it for) replace a 1000W or even 600W HPS. It will replace a 400W MH if you just look at lumens. We have always been very open and precise about what you can and can not do with this lamp. Lighting is a science.

sorry if I am not always popping in when a question arises, fortunately there are many plasma users already who can answer most questions now :) (thanks Herb!)
 
whazzup

whazzup

81
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About the new 1000W single ended lamp we are about to introduce:

We have just introduced the Gavita Enhanced HPS lamp for 230V ballasts, in 400 and 600W. It has an enhanced wire frame construction to cope with the high frequency energy and an arc tube that is stable with high frequencies (no acoustic resonance). We are not going to introduce a single ended 1000W lamp for 230V ballasts, just for the 400V ballasts. We had already selected one for the 1000W 230V normal electronic ballasts, but we were not satisfied with the output compared to the 400V lamps. So we decided to not sell a lamp that is not equally efficient as the 600W horticultural lamp.

For the Pro-line we already introduced the Pro 600W 400V electronic lamp, as an alternative to the Philips lamp. For those who want to use an air cooled reflector we will bring a Pro 1000W 400V electronic single ended lamp to the market this summer, together with the 1000W air cooled adjustable TripleStar reflector.
 
whazzup

whazzup

81
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oh I just saw a question about efficiency when dimmed. We did op course research. A 600W lamp at 100% has a much better efficiency than a 1000W at 60%:
Lamp comparison 21


This is efficiency in umol/W. For the actual output multiply by the number of watts.

So you see a 1000W DE lamp performs as well at 660W as a Hortilux at 1000W, as in efficiency of course. A 400V 600W EL lamp does about 1.9. umol/W @ 100%.
 
nangonug

nangonug

Premium Member
Supporter
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just for the record guys, (and it is the last thing I'll say about this subject until there is some real news): Gavita is a Luxim Business partner. When there is something new available, we have it. When they announce something new we already know it. Last year there were rumors about a new module, and preliminary specs were released in a newsletter. Unfortunately this model is not even out of its prototype stage. Luxim is a venture capital backed company which has to produce and innovate. But they hurt themselves by bringing out this information as the new module, let alone a fixture for it, will not be available in a long time. Last year some people were suggesting that it would be on the market soon (it was not) or latest beginning of this year (it was not). Now these rumor surface again as there is a light show in May where Luxim will be. Please visit their booth and see a dummy of a new module which will be not even pre-production ready until end of the year, so do not expect a new fixture until somewhere next year. We are not in the business of spreading rumors or misinformation. You can not take decisions based on rumors. So, if people on the forums I manage insist to keep on undermining the information flow by spreading false rumors (or even say I am a misinformed liar) I will warn them not to do so any more. If they persist: I have better things to do than fight windmills 9and we have a lot of then in Holland :D).

For those who still want to wait for a new and bigger module: The current plasma fixture has a pay-back time (just based on the added light output and corresponding yield) of less than two cycles. I do not even take quality into this consideration. So you get a good ROI for this fixture. Also it remains to be seen if you can swap the 300W for the new module. You need to be able to spread the light over a surface, specifically when you combine it with HPS. That means that you would need to have a much wider reflector or hang it higher to get the same mix of HPS and plasma.

So my recommendation is to not wait and just experience the plasma for yourself. It is a no-brainer if you calculate the pay back time. For HPS fixtures the pay-back time is of course less than one cycle.

Then about the price (just to give you an idea of our strategy): Our competitors in the US, for example Chameleon, have a much higher MSRP ($ 1695) to be able to give the shops a bigger margin, and for that they give you a metal box with a fan in it. Our horticultural quality fixture (solid state fanless, custom design, Miro reflecotor, float glass wide spectrum filter, Wieland connector, inox parts) has an MSRP in the US of $ 1299. This has been the price since launch. We keep the price and margins low to enable people to actually be able to afford this lamp. It will not become cheaper this year. Recently Chameleon in the US announced their prices to drop, I think they have a special deal for 1395. This is not to talk bad about the competition, they do a good job promoting this new technology and investing in it, there is more than enough room in the market for more suppliers. It's just to put thing a bit more in perspective.

New technology is exciting, and even more so if it is affordable. As most of you will not be growing lettuce and tomatoes the break even point will be much faster than with any horticultural crop. You will get a better ROI with a HPS lamp, no doubt about it. LEP is still by far not as efficient as HPS in producing photons. It can not (contrary to what some of the competition tries to sell it for) replace a 1000W or even 600W HPS. It will replace a 400W MH if you just look at lumens. We have always been very open and precise about what you can and can not do with this lamp. Lighting is a science.

sorry if I am not always popping in when a question arises, fortunately there are many plasma users already who can answer most questions now :) (thanks Herb!)

Thanks for clearing that up Whazzup! I just saw the early release information on the 75 puck which uses 450 watts commong out on a reef building sight. I was thinging that being printed in Aug. last year we should have seen this out by now but was still waiting for the new tec to come out. I am seirously thinking of trying out 2 plasmas over my 2 3x3 veg areas but have been afraid to pull the triger because of this article and cost. They would be replacing 20 t'5. Hearing from an actural factory rep on the subject helps me to make an informed decision based on latest information not hear say. I appreciate you taking the time to keep us informed and up to date! Peace
 
whazzup

whazzup

81
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you will have only one problem, and that is the spread of the light in a square tent, as the plasma lights (point source) have a square light field. Two plasma's are ideal in a 1.50x3m tent for veg and mothers, for serious vegetative growth with plasma alone in a 3x3m you would have to invest in 4 for a complete plasma lit veg tent.

Again, I do not want to over-hype plasma, it is a great solution, but it comes at a cost. A combination of 4 1000W and 4 plasma for flowering would be a dream setup though.
 
T

theherbalizor

Premium Member
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I will try and get some update shots up in the next few days. This time I have 6 plants under the 2 x 600w pro and one LEP. Scrogged and probably looking the best run I have done yet, I know I keep saying that. But as I get more used to the new tech the more I can dial it in.

My next setup will be my dream one. Dr240w tent with 600 - LEP - 600 - LEP - 600. So 2400 watts in total.

The biggest thing I have noticed since using plasma in my veg / flowering room is that there is much much less under the canopy to trim up. The plants seem to send up all shoots equally when the top is trained. Much more so than under any other artificial lighting. This increases the amount of flower heads and lowers the amount of work one has to do.

The plasma will pay for it self in its first run. Whazzup will say 2 as he does not want to over hype but I can assure you that, unlike most other lights, buying a plasma is pure investment and not a loss.

Put it this way, if you buy a plasma and then get strapped for cash, you'll be able to sell it on and not make a loss. I had to let one of my plasmas go, only have 3 now. As I was short of cash. And I had a plethora of friends fighting to take it off my hands. I will be purchasing another 2 plasmas in the next couple of months.

And gavitas aircooled hoods will also be making a dent in my wallet, when they get released.

Hey whazzup buddy! Hope you are well?
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

6,892
313
As ever, getting the official word here is worth its weight in gold, and many thanks to Whazzap for keeping us informed not only about product but also realistic timetables for release.

Whazzap is but one of many here who are extremely knowlegeable and well informed in their particular fields, and to have FREE access to such breadth and depth of expertise is a privilege that's not to be taken for granted!
 
tinytim

tinytim

7
3
Thanks for sharing all of the leg work on plasma lighting. Reminiscent of the time when HMIs and Xenons were first first being introduced for photographic use. Now they're on cars. You are leading the revolution, gentlemen.
 
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